Interview with Lukasz Erecinski, Pine64's Community Manager
Continuing with the interviews around the PineTime community.
After JF (InfiniTime lead dev) and Lup (Bootloader lead dev), this time I am
interviewing Lukasz from Pine64.
About you
Nico: Hi Lukasz, it's a pleasure doing this interview with you! For those who don't know you, could you introduce yourself?
Lukasz:
Thank you for having me. I'm the person running the day-to-day operations of
PINE64, at least from the community's standpoint. I mostly engage with partner
projects and community developers - in short, I make sure that things are
running smoothly, the relevant people have the resources they need and
development is moving along.
I am also the bridge between the community and the
production team, which means I get to advocate for community-proposed solutions
on a regular basis.
Pine64:
Nico: Before we dive into PineTime, could you tell us a bit about the history of Pine64? When was it created, by who, what its goals are?
Lukasz: PINE64 started with a Kickstarter campaign in 2015. Initially the idea
was pretty simple: to offer a 64-bit Arm single board computer that could
compete with the then-32bit Raspberry Pi.
I don't think that there were any
significant community-related plans initially, but this isn't something I know
with certainty because I wasn't part of the project at the time.
The campaign
was a success and the first PINE64 device - the PINE A64(+) - was delivered to
backers in early-to-mid 2016.
The project was started by TL Lim, an entrepreneur with a keen interest in open
source.
I don't know TL's exact reasoning behind starting PINE64, you'd have to
ask him about it, but surely an important part of it was the open source
community's involvement in Popcorn Hour media players produced by one of his
companies.
These mid and high-end media players were very popular in the mid
2000s among audiophiles, and fostered a large community of developers.
In a sense, one could say that PINE64 sprung from this community and superseded it.
Nico: What was the first product built/shipped by Pine64?
Lukasz: The PINE A64(+) was PINE64's first device, and it was manufactured for
the 2015 crowdfunding campaign.
However, when I think about our devices, I
always think of the ROCK64 and the original Pinebook as the project's early
landmark devices.
Nico: The approach taken by Pine64 is interesting - I mean, building products for the open-source community, which are not "finalised" and require this community to get involved, is a bit unusual - what were the first feedbacks you got?
Lukasz: Initially people didn't get it. Indeed, still many people don't get
it. It obviously isn't a traditional business model, so naturally we saw a lot
of push-back at first. People wanted us to follow a tried-and-tested paradigm:
increase the device price-point, hire developers, grow the business side, go
mainstream, etc.
Looking back at the early years, I am happy we stuck to our
guns and followed though with our early vision of running PINE64 as a community
rather than a business. It was a good call.
Nico: What were the "lessons learned" following those first products, i.e. things you improved with later iterations of those products, or with new products?
Lukasz: We learnt a lot from the the early product line-up. So much in fact
that it would be impossible for me to list everything.
So instead I'll focus on
two important "aha!" moments:
with our SBC line-up, we learnt that we have a unique opportunity to promote boards as both stand-alone SBCs as well as development platforms for future devices.
For instance, you connect a LCD panel, a USB modem and a battery to the PINE A64-LTS and you've got yourself a PinePhone dev kit.
This gives SBCs a purpose within the context of our product range, and converges the development between SBCs and full flegdeg devices.The device we learnt a lot from was the original Pinebook.
We created it with a SBC manufacturers mind-set: it had unpopulated USB headers for hacking, accessible GPIOs via the SD card port for experimenting and other tinkerer-focused features.
As it turned out, however, no one really made use of these features. People didn't want a SBC in a laptop case, they wanted a more powerful Arm laptop.
We realised that while SBCs and devices ought to be mutually complimentary, they shouldn't be approached by us with the same mindset.
Nico: The initial orders of PineTime took quite some time to be delivered (I
think my dev kit took 8 weeks). The situation is much better now, but that
allows me to ask a question about logistics: without disclosing too much, how do
you handle stocks, compared with popular products?
I guess it's a tricky
tradeoff between having enough stuff in stock, and not too much to avoid paying
fees?
Lukasz: Allocating resources (people, money, time) is tricky because we have a
very extensive product-line. That said, at present the main issue we're facing
is the global component shortage.
We recently had to exchange two components on
the PineTime because of this. Any decision we make first needs to be approved by
the devs, because they need to ensure that the new component works with the
firmware.
Sourcing and securing components for the manufacture of the PineTime,
as well as other products, is currently our only real challenge.
I just got word yesterday that components for the next batch of stand-alone
PineTimes has been secured and that the replacement components now work with
InfiniTime fimware.
Granted all goes according to plan, we should have
stand-alone PineTimes in stock for much of the year moving forward.
PineTime:
Nico: After the initial "regular" devices (Board computers, Laptops, Tablet), was the decision to release a smartwatch an easy one, or did Pine64 weigh the pros and cons?
Lukasz: The creation of the PineTime was my idea - I always wanted to see a
spiritual successor to the Pebble.
When I pitched the project to TL we were
knee-deep in complex projects, and I felt that a simpler device, one which would
reach software maturity faster, would be beneficial to us.
I wouldn't
necessarily say the decision to create the PineTime was easy, but the positive
initial response quickly convinced us that we should proceed with it.
Nico: Compared with other Pine64 products, are there significantly more complicated challenges when dealing with a smartwatch, which packs a lot of stuff in a small form factor?
Lukasz: The PineTime is a relatively simple device with many off-the-shelf
components, so it is much simpler to produce than the PinePhone, Pinebook Pro or
even a SBC.
Aside from the Pinecil, it is probably our least complex device.
The
only real challenge with the PineTime is securing components during the ongoing
component shortages.
Nico: How does the PineTime compare, in terms of popularity, to other Pine64 products? My feeling is that it's pretty popular - if so, did that surprise you?
Lukasz: That depends how you define 'popularity'. It has the most community
contributors, that's for sure. There are three of four popular firmware for the
PineTime, and all include work submitted by dozens of developers.
Last time I
checked, the InfiniTime repository had 58 contributors and over 200 forks.
The
community around the PineTime, although smaller than that of the Pinebook Pro or
PinePhone, has a much higher developer to end-user ratio.
It obviously has a significant end-user following too, and the vast majority of people who pick one up are very happy with their purchase. This is in part due to the relatively high degree of software maturity. The project is also actively growing in popularity, with many people joining, contributing code and shaping the community. It is very dynamic.
If we were to determine popularity by sale volume alone, then industry-focused
products like the SOPine or the highly popular enthusiast devices, such as the
PinePhone, outsell the PineTime by a significant amount.
But we're very happy
with the current sale rate.
Nico: I have interviewed Lup (regarding the PineTime bootloader) and JF
(regarding InfiniTime, PineTime's firmware) and one thing which struck me is
that basically the community had to build all the software on top of the PT
hardware - which is again by design.
Did finding the right people to do it prove
challenging?
Lukasz: I'm not even going to pretend we had some coherent plan at first - we
went into it pretty blindly.
We did some research, talked to the guys at Rebble
and a handful of other projects, but we had no idea who will end up taking the
lead on the PineTime.
We also had no idea how successful the PineTime will
become - or if it will be successful at all. It all came about organically.
I met JF at FOSDEM 2020 and at that point I knew the project was in safe hands.
Soon after this many others joined and helped out the project get off the
ground.
As things stand, the PineTime is an example of how hardware-centered
projects can grow and be governed by similar principles to traditional open
source software communities.
Thinking forward:
Nico: As I am witnessing this on a daily basis, I can tell you that there's a
real enthusiasm about the PineTime! The device is cheap and delivers a lot, but
it's true that having e.g. more flash storage or a GPS chip is quite often
asked.
Does Pine64 consider releasing a "PineTime v2" with enhancements?
Lukasz: For sure there will be a PineTime 2 at some point. We are currently
ping-ponging ideas with the developers, trying to settle on a feature-set that
would guarantee a fun and exciting product, which would simultaneously be viable
for manufacture.
At present all options are still on the table - display type,
platform, input method and of course the complete feature-set. It will take us
months to zero-in on what exactly we and the devs want to create - but rest
assured, whatever we settle on, the next PineTime will be built from the ground
up with the devs who will develop the firmware for it.
If you follow JF's Twitter, you may get an
inkling in which direction things are going at this early exploration phase.
Nico: One last question - with the vaccination campaign really taking off, there's a good hope that the next FOSDEM conference can happen as normal (i.e. not remotely). Will there be a Pine64 booth?
Lukasz: If there will be an in-person FOSDEM 2022 then we'll be there.
Tags: PineTime